Drugs on the Docket Podcast

In the first episode of season 4, host Hannah Miller and cohost Douglas Berman unpack amici briefs and oral arguments from the Supreme Court case, United States v. Hemani. The case raises deep questions about enforcement, personal liberty, and how far the government can go to prevent harm. Guests Joel Johnson and Jake Charles bring expert perspectives to this pending case that sits at the uneasy crossroads of drugs and guns.

Johnson and Charles are associate professors at Pepperdine University School of Law.

Show notes:

• SCOTUSblog page on United States v. Hemani
• Recording and transcript of United States v. Hemani oral arguments
• An off-ramp for the court’s next big gun case by Joel Johnson, SCOTUSblog
• Brief of Professor Joel S. Johnson as Amicus Curiae Supporting Respondent
• Breaking Down the Hemani Arguments by Jake Charles, Duke Center for Firearms Law Blog
• Brief of Second Amendment Law Scholars as Amici Curiae in Support of Petitioner (co-authored by Jake Charles)

Visit go.osu.edu/drugsonthedocket to learn more about the podcast.

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In the final episode of the season, host Hannah Miller teams up with cohost Logan Davis to explore the complex intersection of federal drug policy and campus life. Cohost-turned-guest Douglas Berman is joined by Dr. Jim Lange to discuss the legacy of the Drug-Free Schools and Communities Act and trends in student substance use, enforcement, and recovery support. This episode sheds light on how higher education institutions navigate prevention, enforcement, and support in a shifting legal landscape and touches on the impacts of direct democracy, intoxicating hemp regulation, and marijuana rescheduling.

Lange is the executive director, and Davis is an outreach and engagement manager, at the Higher Education Center for Alcohol and Drug Misuse Prevention and Recovery (HECAOD) at The Ohio State University.

This episode was originally recorded as part of HECAOD’s Water Cooler Chat Series.

Show notes:

• Higher Education Center for Alcohol and Drug Misuse Prevention and Recovery
• Drug Enforcement and Policy Center’s resources and research on marijuana reform
• Drug Enforcement and Policy Center’s resources on intoxicating hemp
• Drug Enforcement and Policy Center’s resources and research on marijuana impaired driving
• The latest data on Campus Drug Prevention from the Drug Enforcement Administration
• National College Health Assessment

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In the U.S., federal sentencing guidelines for drug-related offenses operate based on drug type and quantity. The most common category of federal drug offenders found with large quantities of powder cocaine are ‘boat defendants’—poor, unarmed foreign nationals detained at sea. When professors Kendra McSweeney and Mat Coleman dug into the sentencing data for this rare type of drug courier, they uncovered a profound justice policy story. In this episode, Host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman speak with Ohio State Geography Professors McSweeney and Coleman about what we can learn from this remarkable set of drug defendants.

McSweeney is a professor and distinguished scholar, and Coleman is a professor and department chair, both in the Department of Geography at The Ohio State University.

Show notes:

• Federal Sentencing Reporter, Volume 37, Issue 2: Sentencing “Boat Defendants”
• AP News article, US upends its role as the high-seas drug police with a military strike on Venezuelan boat
• The Intercept article, Venezuela Boat Crews Targeted by Trump are Low-Level Pawns in the Drug Game

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In this episode, Host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman speak with NYU law professor Rachel Barkow about her latest book, Justice Abandoned. Barkow presents a powerful critique of the Supreme Court’s role in perpetuating mass incarceration by failing to enforce key constitutional protections. She offers insights into how the justice system got here—from the political climate of the late 1960s to the rise of the war on drugs—and how judicial appointments can shape the future of criminal justice reform.

Barkow is the Charles Seligson Professor of Law at NYU School of Law. She also serves as the faculty director of the Zimroth Center on the Administration of Criminal Law at NYU and served as a member of the United States Sentencing Commission from 2013 to 2019.

Show notes:

• Publisher’s page for Justice Abandoned
• Publisher’s page for Rachel Barkow’s prior book, “Prisoners of Politics: Breaking the Cycle of Mass Incarceration”
• Supreme Court case, Harmelin v. Michigan, 501 U.S. 957 (1991)
• John F. Stinneford, Rethinking Proportionality Under the Cruel and Unusual Punishments Clause, 97 Va. L. Rev. 899 (2011)
• Michael J. Zydney Mannheimer, Harmelin’s Faulty Originalism, 14 Nev. L.J. 522 (2014)

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In this episode of Drugs on the Docket, Udi Ofer—renowned human rights lawyer and founding director of Princeton’s Policy Advocacy Clinic—shares insights on training the next generation of policy advocates and navigating bipartisan criminal justice reform. From the EQUAL Act to sentencing disparities, Ofer joins hosts Hannah Miller and Douglas Berman to provide a compelling look at how policy advocacy can shape the future of criminal justice reform.

Ofer is Director of the Policy Advocacy Clinic, James L. Weinberg Visiting Professor, and Lecturer in the School of Public and International Affairs at Princeton University.

Show notes:

• EQUAL Act, 118th Congress (2023-2024)
• Princeton Policy Advocacy Clinic
• Principals of Criminal Justice Reform
• Recording of event titled, A Shared Vision for the Future of Criminal Justice Policy
• Policy Brief on EQUAL Act, December 2024, Policy Advocacy Clinic, Princeton School of Public and International Affairs
• The Atlantic article by Udi Ofer titled, Bipartisan Criminal-Justice Reform is Still Very Much Alive
• SPIA news item titled, Bipartisan Group Facilitated by Princeton SPIA Issues Criminal Justice Reform Principles
• Princeton Alumni Weekly article on clinic titled, SPIA Undergraduates Headed to UN in Geneva to Advocate for Change

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In October 2022, President asked the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) to review how marijuana is scheduled under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA). This sparked a multi-step formal rulemaking process that is ongoing.

In this episode we showcase a virtual panel discussion hosted by the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center on April 8, 2025. The panel of experts and former government officials explained the rescheduling process thus far and addressed how marijuana policy may change under the Trump Administration.

Bridget Dooling is Assistant Professor of Law at The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law and former Deputy Chief for the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs at the U.S. Office of Management and Budget. Matt Lawrence is Associate Professor at Emory University School of Law and former Senior Advisor with the Drug Enforcement Administration of the U.S. Department of Justice. Cat Packer is a Distinguished Cannabis Policy Practitioner in Residence at The Ohio State University Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, Director of Drug Markets and Legal Regulation at Drug Policy Alliance, and former Executive Director of the City of Los Angeles Department of Cannabis Regulation. Patricia J. Zettler is John W. Bricker Professor of Law at The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law and former Deputy General Counsel to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Show notes:

• David Pozen’s post on the Balkinization Blog titled, Reading the Tea Leaves on Marijuana Rescheduling
• DEPC’s resource page on Federal Marijuana Rescheduling
• Drug Policy Alliance analysis of public comments
• Methadone’s Regulatory Thicket, coauthored by Bridget Dooling
• Drug Scheduling as Institutional Design, by Matt Lawrence and David Pozen
• The Surprising Reach of FDA Regulation of Cannabis, Even after Descheduling, by Erika Lietzan and Sean M. O’Connor

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In the first episode of Season 3, returning guests Doug Passon and Mark Allenbaugh join hosts Hannah Miller and Douglas Berman to examine the legacy of United States v. Booker, the landmark Supreme Court case that 20 years ago transformed the federal sentencing guidelines from mandatory to advisory. They discuss the impact of Booker on judicial discretion, federal drug sentencing, and legislative action to amend the U.S. Sentencing Commission’s sentencing guidelines. The episode also touches on the February 5^th Justice Department Memos from Attorney General Pam Bondi and their possible impact on the number and length of criminal drug sentences, as well as what, if any, influence an Obama-era clemency project might have on the current administration’s Office of the Pardon Attorney in light of a Bureau of Prisons capacity crisis.

Passon is a criminal defense lawyer of over twenty-five years, an award-winning documentary filmmaker, and host of the Set for Sentencing podcast. Allenbaugh is an attorney and entrepreneur with nationally-recognized expertise in federal sentencing, law, policy, and practice, and is a co-founder of Sentencing Stats, LLC. 

• Set for Sentencing podcast
• SentencingStats.com – The Source for Federal Sentencing Data
• Federal Sentencing Reporter: Booker at Twenty
• Season 1 Episode 1 – Federal drug sentencing and the evolution of the crack to powder cocaine ratio with Mark Osler
• Season 1 Episode 5 – Data and storytelling in federal drug sentencing and the U.S. Sentencing Commission with Doug Passon and Mark Allenbaugh

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, speak with journalist and Moritz College of Law alum, Chris Geidner. Geidner publishes Law Dork, which provides wide-ranging legal reporting and analysis of U.S. trial and appellate courts as well as the Supreme Court. In this episode, Geidner offers his insights into a number of 2024 SCOTUS decisions and ruminates with Doug Berman about their potential impacts on current and future drug policy and cases.

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Doug Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, speak with the Honorable Judge Carlton W. Reeves, Chair of the United States Sentencing Commission and U.S. District Court Judge for the Southern District of Mississippi. Judge Reeves discusses his role as Chair of the Sentencing Commission and the recent activities of the Commission, including efforts taken to reform the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines.

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In this episode, host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, speak with author and professor David Pozen to discuss his new book, The Constitution of the War on Drugs. In this groundbreaking work, Pozen provides a comparative history lesson on U.S. court cases in which constitutional arguments for drug-rights were or were not employed, explains how the Constitution helped to legitimate and entrench punitive drug policy, and offers a constitutional roadmap to drug policy reform that may yet prevail in an increasingly originalist-leaning federal court system.

 David Pozen is Charles Keller Beekman Professor of Law at Columbia Law School.

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Host Hannah Miller sits down with guests Tasha Perdue and Sydney Silverstein to discuss their recent research centering on the overdose crisis, the relationship between stigma, substance use, and treatment, Good Samaritan laws, and the role of law enforcement in harm reduction efforts.

Tasha Perdue is an Assistant Professor at The Ohio State University John Glenn College of Public Affairs and affiliated faculty member of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center; Sydney Silverstein is an Assistant Professor at the Center for Interventions, Treatment, and Addictions Research (CITAR) in the Department of Population and Public Health Sciences at the Boonshoft School of Medicine, Wright State University.

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, continue their conversation with Alison Siegler and Erica Zunkel. Part 2 covers how the University of Chicago Law School’s Federal Criminal Justice Clinic pushed the boundaries of criminal defense and leveraged the First Step Act to secure compassionate release for stash house defendants who were not part of the clinic’s “criminal class action” litigation.

Alison Siegler is Clinical Professor of Law and Founding Director of the Federal Criminal Justice Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School; Erica Zunkel is Clinical Professor of Law at the University of Chicago Law School and teaches in the school’s Criminal and Juvenile Justice Clinic.

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, kick off Season 2 with guests Alison Siegler and Erica Zunkel from the University of Chicago. Part 1 of this two-part episode focuses on clients ensnared in undercover stash house sting operations carried out by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and how the Federal Criminal Justice Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School sought to prove that the ATF violated the 14^th Amendment Equal Protection Clause by discriminating on the basis of race when selecting its targets.

Alison Siegler is Clinical Professor of Law and Founding Director of the Federal Criminal Justice Clinic at the University of Chicago Law School; Erica Zunkel is Clinical Professor of Law at the University of Chicago Law School and teaches in the school’s Criminal and Juvenile Justice Clinic.

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Doug Berman round out our first set of bonus episodes with an update to Season 1 Episode 6. Listen as they discuss recent state-level court rulings regarding probable cause in response to increasing marijuana legalization across the U.S. They also dig into the way culture can influence both what we see as acceptable behavior in our communities and police interactions.

Transcript

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Doug Berman are taking a second look at Season 1 Episode 5, the United States Sentencing Commission, and the Federal Sentencing Guidelines. Listen as they discuss an amendment to the current sentencing guidelines, the research that led to this policy change, and the impact the amendment could have on thousands of incarcerated individuals.

Transcript

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Doug Berman reflect on Season 1 Episode 4, and delve further into the history and inequitable application of mandatory minimum sentences and current legislative efforts to improve the federal legal system. Listen as they explore the upcoming case before SCOTUS, Pulsifer v. United States, and its potential to widen or narrow the safety valve through which thousands of federal defendants could find some relief from their mandatory minimum sentences.

Transcript

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Doug Berman look back at Season 1 Episode 3, and discuss what a new Chief Justice for the Ohio Supreme Court could signal about the court’s interest in reentry efforts. They also unpack a provision from Ohio Senate Bill 288 that allows prosecutors to apply for expungement on behalf of those with some low-level marijuana possession offenses.

Transcript

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Doug Berman delve into an appellate court case, United States v. Kim, through the lens of Ruan v. United States, a major Supreme Court decision and topic of Season 1 Episode 2. Listen as they offer insights into how the Supreme Court case may reshape the government’s response to America’s overdose crisis through the prosecution of doctors for over-prescribing controlled substances.

Transcript

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Host Hannah Miller and co-host Doug Berman look back at Season 1 Episode 1, providing updates and insights into the continued struggle to change the crack to powder cocaine ratio from 18:1 to 1:1 and further reduce unwarranted sentencing disparities.

Transcript

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In this episode, host Hannah Miller and co-host Ric Simmons, professor of law at The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, speak with Gabriel “Jack” Chin about unlawful search and seizures, the Fourth Amendment, and police discretion. Chin is professor of law at the University of California Davis School of Law where he teaches criminal law, criminal procedure, and immigration law. Chin’s writings on the topics of immigration law, criminal procedure, and race and law have appeared in a myriad of esteemed publications and his work on the collateral consequences of criminal conviction was cited by the United States Supreme Court in Chaidez v. United States.

Link to transcript

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In this episode, host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, speak with Doug Passon and Mark Allenbaugh. Passon is a criminal defense lawyer of over twenty-five years, an award-winning documentary filmmaker, and host of the Set for Sentencing podcast. Allenbaugh is an attorney and entrepreneur with nationally-recognized expertise in federal sentencing, law, policy and practice, and is a co-founder of Sentencing Stats, LLC. Passon and Allenbaugh discuss the newly resurrected U.S. Sentencing Commission and the importance of data and storytelling when it comes to federal drug sentencing.

Link to transcript

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In this episode, host Hannah Miller and co-host Erik Luna, executive director of the Academy for Justice at Arizona State University Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law, speak with Weldon Angelos and former United States District Court Judge Paul Cassell. In 2004, Angelos was sentenced to a mandatory 55-year prison term for a low-level marijuana offense due to the mandatory application of stacked firearm sentencing terms. Cassell, who presided over Angelos’ case, authored a pathbreaking opinion, calling the de facto life sentence “cruel, unjust, and irrational.” After serving twelve years of his sentence, Angelos’ family, and others championing his case, secured an early release. Since then, Angelos has become an activist, working with public officials to end cannabis prohibition and reform the federal criminal justice system. Today, Cassell is a professor at the University of Utah S.J. Quinney College of Law.

Link to transcript

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In this episode, host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, speak with Ohio Supreme Court Chief Justice Maureen O’Connor just weeks before her retirement. Chief Justice O’Connor was the tenth Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Ohio and the first woman to lead the state’s judicial branch of government. With a public service career spanning three decades, she was the longest-serving statewide elected woman in Ohio history. Chief Justice O’Connor discusses her time on the Ohio Supreme Court, specialized dockets (including drug courts), the importance of collaboration and data collection, and her hopes for the future of Ohio’s legal system.

Link to transcript

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In this episode, host Hannah Miller and co-host Patricia Zettler, associate professor of law at The Ohio State University Moritz College of Law, speak with Jenn Oliva and Kelly Gillespie. Oliva is professor of law at UC College of the Law, San Francisco (formerly UC Hastings Law). Gillespie is professor and director of the Center for Health Law Studies at Saint Louis University School of Law. At the time of recording, Gillespie was professor of law and the director of the health law program at Creighton University School of Law. Oliva and Gillespie filed the only amicus brief at the petition stage on the part of the defendant in the U.S. Supreme Court case of Ruan v. United States. The case explored what prosecutors must prove about a defendant’s mental state in order to convict them of unauthorized distribution of controlled substances under federal drug laws. In Ruan, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the defendant, determining that the Government must prove the defendant knowingly or intentionally acted in an unauthorized manner. 

Link to transcript

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In our inaugural episode, host Hannah Miller and co-host Douglas Berman, executive director of the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center, speak with Mark Osler, American legal scholar and law professor at the University of St. Thomas School of Law in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Osler played a role in clarifying that federal judges no longer had to follow the 100-to-1 ratio between crack and powder cocaine in the federal sentencing guidelines by winning the 2009 case of Spears v. United States in the U.S. Supreme Court.

Link to transcript

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This May, the Drug Enforcement and Policy Center at The Ohio State University will launch season one of the Drugs on the Docket podcast. The trailer provides a brief introduction to the podcast and a sneak peek of what you can expect from season one.

Link to transcript

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